Everything's Coming Up Gavin Creel

Written By: Chelsea & Cynthia 

Featuring: Gavin Creel

"I actually know my songs are good. I believe that for myself, independently. I had to tell myself: you're allowed to start saying this to yourself. It's not arrogance, it's not even confidence, it's just knowing, it's peace."

After 20 years in the industry, this is what Gavin Creel finally started saying to himself.

You may know Gavin from his Tony Award-winning performance as Cornelius Hackl in Hello, Dolly! starring Bette Midler. He was also among the star-studded cast of New York City Center Encores! critically acclaimed production of Into The Woods starring as Wolf/Cinderella’s Prince.

The celebrated production transferred to Broadway where Gavin reprised his role as Wolf/Cinderella’s Prince opposite Sara Bareilles, Brian d’Arcy James, Joshua Henry, Julia Lester and Patina Miller. Gavin additionally received an Olivier Award for his portrayal of Elder Price in the London Production of The Book Of Mormon.

We were honored to sit down with Gavin and have a transformative conversation about identity, self-worth, and creativity with one of Broadway's brightest (and kindest!) stars. 

Q: Tell us a little bit about your background and what your first big break was

A: Back when I was trying to decide which college to attend, it was between Carnegie Mellon and Michigan, and I was dead set on going to Carnegie Mellon.

And then something happened - I remember I was on a school bus and I was thinking about, you got to make a decision, and I had visited and loved both school. But something just clicked and I went, I'm going to Michigan. It was almost, it was my first adult decision that I felt spiritually led to. It was mine to make.

But I will say when I was at the University of Michigan, it was rare that sophomores were cast in shows in the fall semester and I was one of four sophomores that were cast in the fall show. And that felt like a big break to me. That felt like I was seen in a way that I can't really put into words. I've had so many opportunities happen to me or for me that it's hard for me to distinguish where my confidence comes from because I think I have the confidence or because I've been given opportunities. Yes, I'm talented. Yes, I have the ability, but so do a million other people - and Michigan is chock full of talent and charisma. But for that reason, that opportunity feels like it was my first big break.

Obviously getting workshops and readings at the beginning of my career in New York were big moments too. I did workshops of Hairspray, Spring Awakening and Wicked and my getting cast as Jimmy in Thoroughly Modern Millie would maybe be my big break on Broadway.

But I have to say, being cast in the musical review of Oh, Coward! my sophomore year with three other sophomores felt very special and was not lost on me.

Q: A lot of actors will have some years of experience as an ensemble or as a swing or a standby. But you kind of hit the lead track pretty quickly and you've kind of stayed there. What does it feel like to carry a show? 

A: I felt the worst imposter syndrome in Millie. I felt I did not belong there - I felt like I was going to get fired the whole time. Until, weirdly enough, I injured myself in previews, and then all of a sudden this creative team was like, "Are you okay?" And I was like, 'huh, you know, it's funny, I have not felt this love before...' It set me off on a bit of a path, if I'm honest again, of fear in me with the business that has taken me a long time to get past.

But it was when I was 30 and I was doing Mary Poppins in London, where I sort of realized there's a responsibility when you play the lead, to also lead the company backstage - their relationship, morale, etc. I watched Sutton do it in Millie. On Saturdays between shows, she would go around in her robe and slippers and just visit and say hi in all the dressing rooms. Gary Beach would do a similar thing in La Cage aux Folles. 

So it's become my favorite role in a show, checking in, looking around, and seeing how I can help throw a party once in a while. One of my co-stars I noticed was having a rough day during a rehearsal the other day, and I texted them to check in and offer any help. I saw them a little bit later that night and then they came up to me and gave me a hug and expressed their appreciation. And we didn't really get into it, but it's just a really heavy, hard job that looks really fun and frivolous most of the time. And I'm now realizing how important that leadership position is to keep the joy.

Q: What is that like to, on the outside look so successful - when in reality it may be months between projects and you don't know when you'll be cast for something new? 

A: First of all, I have to acknowledge that I am so privileged to have had such opportunities come my way throughout my career and it really wasn't until the pandemic that I experienced what it's like to live without performing in a real and raw way. I wasn't allowed to do the thing that I loved doing. I lost my voice for a year and a half in the middle of the pandemic because of what I thought was vocal damage, but it was grief. I had a lot of loss during that time, as we all did.

But when I came back to Into the Woods, I was like, do I remember how to do this? I was kind of nervous to be in a rehearsal room again because it had been years since I'd done it. And I will say, I don't know that I would be doing the national tour of Into the Woods had it not been for that time because now I see it all differently. I appreciate it so much more, I see the value of having a purpose.

That's the biggest thing I took for granted, the purpose of getting to go to a theater and be with people, even if it is to tell the same story over and over again. 

I had the opportunity to be a part of the New Works Festival at Michigan this past January. I stood in front of the students that were in my group and I looked at them at the end of a warmup. And I shared that we're all in this elevated space right now and I want to tell you the truth about Gavin Creel.

This person that you see in front of you, I don't know who that is. I don't know who that Gavin Creel is that you see, but I know he feels not as far from you as you may think. You may see me and think I am way down the track, established, successful, and working all the time - but when I step back in the rehearsal room,  I'm you again. I'm also a college student wondering, "Do I know what I'm doing? Do I know what this is?"

That's something that's really dawned on me, I think the distance from their vantage point to me feels like infinity, and I just want them to know, I hear you, that the only thing I wish to do with teaching performing masterclasses is this is demystifying that distance.

I want to gently take it away and go, we really are more on an equal plane than anyone thinks, and the people who try to make us feel small or make you feel like there's this gulf, I'm not really that interested in working with anymore.

Q: Talk to us about your writing, composing, and Walk On Through.

A: I started writing songs at the piano as a kid, just little diddies. And then when I was 20, I was in the ensemble of the Pittsburgh Civic Light Opera the summer after my junior year and I wrote my first official song and Heather Mazer, who was in the ensemble, sat on the floor next to the piano bench.

And I was like, can I play you something? And she sat there in an empty rehearsal room and she became the first person who actually allowed me to be a songwriter, because when I finished, she encouraged me and enjoyed what I had written.

I share that story because that's what my show (Walk On Through) is kind of about, and for anybody who's ever tried to make anything, there has to be somebody who looks you in the eyes and says, I'm so proud of you for trying to make that.

I wrote songs through my twenties and thirties, beginning with independent records. One song, Good Time Nation, two EP's: Quiet, and Get Out. Those were all collaborations, but I always knew I wanted to make a theater pieces.

Cut to I got offered a partnership with the Metropolitan Museum of Art, where a friend of mine was on the development team, and he said there was a curatorial department called the Met Live Art Series. Basically, they give membership cards to people in various industries and walks of performing life - and they get to visit the museum for free and when you they come up with an idea inspired by the art, let us the museum know and they'll help you present the piece to the public.

And that's literally the plot of the show [Walk On Through]. It's about a guy who's having a midlife moment despite having this beautiful life that everybody thinks is perfect. I originally told the MET that I just wanted to create a concert and I'll look at art and tell you what I felt, thought, saw or experienced. But it's developed into something far deeper than I could ever have imagined. And the hope is that we'll have a full production, my dream is to do a limited run on Broadway, and then tour it around the world.

I just want to share it with everyone because of the universality of the piece is: Loneliness. It's the most basic thing, but it is the most epic feeling for so many people who struggle in silence. No matter how much you have or how successful you are or appear to be, life is hard.

And I say that without any pity in myself because of what we lived through in the pandemic. I just understand things less and more now than I could ever have imagined. I'm trying to put that into art with this piece. It's intimidating, it's massive. But I'm learning so much about creation and I love slash I'm terrified slash liberated by the process of writing.

 When I was at the New Works Festival that I kept reminding the students over and over to look at themselves. Don't put on a voice, don't become a character. Pull layers away to get to you and then just say the lines. And I think as an actor, that's actually what we should be doing when we're creating characters is don't put stuff on it. Instead take away, and look within.

Q: Do you feel like you've allowed yourself to shed the imposter syndrome and, and lead in all aspects of your career, not just writing?

A: Because I've done acting and company leadership for so long, I do think I have shed the imposter syndrome there. I'm not going to lie, I'm trying to find the both-ness of intrinsic and extrinsic because I spent a of time finding in my worth from outside forces and the pandemic took that away.

There were no outside forces, there was no applause - there was no positive feedback loop. I honestly did not know how I was going to go forward. I was talking to myself in a condescending tone and I think a lot of us know that voice. After a while, I decided if I can gently change that voice inside me, then when somebody says something negative as well, it has no effect on me.

Q: You mentioned that we don't have to be everything or do everything to be successful - but in this day and age, that can be how everybody feels in this industry. What are your thoughts on that? 

A: First, I just want to hold all those people who have those fears and thoughts. I got you, I hear that. And that's real, and that panic feels debilitating. But cut yourself some slack. It's a hard thing to do but the reality is that it's a tough business.

When you're pursuing anything and it doesn't come simply and easily, it only adds to the value. So a little of the challenge and the hustle is good so that you value it when you acheive it.

 The other thing I would say is don't try to source extrinsically your worth and your joy from an industry that does not have a heartbeat, that does not care about you. It's just the truth. Broadway is an energy. It's a street with some real estate that frankly, if we're going to be brutally honest, four business families decide what's going to be put on it. I've worked for three of those families and they all have their strengths and they all have their weaknesses.

Everything is subjective. I want to talk endlessly about the ways that this has not been an equitable business and continues to give opportunities to people who get them again and again. Try not to source your value from an industry that's based on opinion.

  I know I sit in a privileged position to be able to say this because I have been on Broadway, I've been nominated for and won a Tony Award.

But once you win the award, and you realize my phone literally did not ring any more than it had before. Nothing changed except that now I have a $75 paperweight that spins on my bookshelf. I have a title, Tony Award Winner Gavin Creel, which is nice. But that's a person that you know that I don't know anymore. 

I'm still the guy who's experimenting with his hair color and trying to figure out what his next song is. I'm still grappling with my value, my aging, my voice changing, my body - all the time. My whole life has been governed by my body, my shame of my body, my shame of my sexuality, my shame of my appearance. Even now at 47 I'm still trying to grapple with am I good looking enough to have a partner? Am I good looking enough to be cast as a romantic leading man? Am I young enough to be a romantic leading man anymore? The answer is probably no. But I still feel young but I worry about irrelevance. Am I not cool to young people anymore? That's me still trying to outsource my worth to the approval of a generation that doesn't even know who I am.

But like, these are all the things that I grapple with. And I go meditate remind myself that I am enough. You do have worth, you do have talent. You are going to find new things. And the new things you hopefully will find are things that will serve others. 

Q: What are some things you can do that are good for a career? You are sort of famously not much on social media. Can you tell us a little about that?

A: I am completely out of touch. Young people will listen to me and say, I'm sorry, but the world is moving on without you. And I understand that. I'm on Instagram because my agent said I needed to, but I try not to check it much because it's bad for my anxiety. and I kind of love the blissful ignorance.

That said, I'm making a piece of art that I want everyone to see and if I don't have a presence on social media, I'm just shooting myself in the foot.

I used to get on a soapbox about how, what I thought it was doing to the world and to our brains. I will say we're in the theater and I stand by what I said in the press room after winning my Tony, where they asked what I would say to young people. I said, just get off your phone. Watch the rehearsal room. Listen to what the director's saying. Be bored. Boredom is where I get so much creativity. Boredom leads to irritation with self and irritation with self makes you get up and take a walk, explore the Smithsonian, or read books.

My suggestion is find a balance.

You can learn more about Gavin's new musical Walk On Through here!

If you're interested in diving deeper into this interview or exploring other interesting musical theatre conversations - check out the Broadway Vocal Coach podcast! Or check us out on Instagram, and get involved in the conversation! 

Are you a musical theatre performer and wondering what your next step should be? Take our Quiz - we can’t wait to hear your story and help you take the next step in your career.